EP 0003 - Laura Winter Falk of Experience the Finger Lakes! Transcript
Laura holds a Ph.D. in nutrition, is the author of the book Culinary History of the Finger Lakes, is a certified sommelier and owns and operates the premium tour company, Experience the Finger Lakes!
On this Earth Day, we wanted to deliver an episode from someone who doesn’t make wine, but understands the necessity of place, the importance of environmental stewardship, and the concern we all should have for our community.
Transcripts may contain some minor errors, and subscribers may find this transcript truncated in their inbox. Check out our Substack site here to read the entire interview, and watch the interview on our youTube channel here.
S1-EP0003 - Laura Winter Falk of Experience the Finger Lakes!
FULL TRANSCRIPT (with timecode)
00:00:00:08 - 00:00:23:14
Chris Missick: This is viticultural where we share conversations with makers, growers, thinkers and doers, folks who cultivate a good life. My name is Chris Missick and I'm a lawyer turned winemaker in the Finger Lakes region of New York State. And I'm sitting down with great people in wine and other walks of life to hear their stories, learn their lessons and take their advice on the perfect pairing.
00:00:32:13 - 00:01:03:28
Chris Missick: Laura Winter Falk holds a Ph.D. in nutrition, is the author of the book Culinary History of the Finger Lakes, is a certified sommelier by the Court of Master Sommeliers and owns and operates a tour company that TripAdvisor has named one of the top 10 wine tours in the United States and number one and the Finger Lakes region. Her tours under the name Experience the Finger Lakes take consumers on a deep dive of the region with curated visits and experiences at select wineries. We've been proud to work with Laura and her excellent team for several years.
00:01:04:27 - 00:01:37:23
Chris Missick: Wendell Berry has written Found Your Hope. Then on the ground under your feet, she grounds many in this special place that is the Finger Lakes. And for that, we're grateful. If you like this content, please help us grow by liking this video on YouTube and subscribing to our show on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to visit our website and viticulturepodcast.com. Subscribe to our Substack, where you'll get show notes, transcripts, musings and exclusive offers and check us out on all the major social media platforms. And now here's the show.
00:01:49:11 - 00:02:01:12
Chris Missick: Like many people in the wine industry, you spent plenty of time working in another industry. Yes. You found your way into wine after about two decades, correct?
00:02:01:17 - 00:02:06:29
Laura Winter Falk: That, yes. I was 40 years old. When we started the company, think 40, 41. Right.
00:02:07:08 - 00:02:11:08
Chris Missick: So, what was it that led you down this path?
00:02:12:15 - 00:02:47:05
Laura Winter Falk: Well, it's actually, you know, I have to take it back a little bit deeper than what I usually tell is the script that's written on our website. But it really started when I took Cornell's wine appreciation course, you know, wine survey class as a senior, which is kind of like a rite of passage when you when you graduate as an undergrad, is that you want to take that class. And back then we're, you know, 1500 students in a in a large auditorium with around 30 something teachers passing trays of little samples. And it was a pass-fail class. And I immediately fell in love with wine.
And I immediately it was like I was a second semester senior, and I was remembering, I was taking wine appreciation, I was taking history of jazz and then a couple other last-minute requirements that I had for my nutrition degree. And it was just those two classes that pretty much studied and everything else. But I remember I mean; I must have been one of the few people who actually was like cramming as much information that I could about wine in preparation for the test just because I wanted to know. And I have very vivid memories of going over to Robert Truman State Park with a bottle of wine and my audio tapes with my jazz and my notes on my on my wines and just kind of studying during finals week. And it really kind of really just started right there, just immediately took a liking to it and then just became a fan and of file pretty quickly, you know, did you know the classic thing when you're 22 and get your first subscription to the large format Wine Spectator back then, it was a very large format and eating it up and, you know, using opportunities. And when you go out to fine dining and I remember we came back, my husband, I came back from our honeymoon and in Italy and we had discovered Barolo. And it was it was like before everyone else had discovered
00:04:18:10 - 00:04:19:23
Chris Missick: The "Borolo Boys" came.
00:04:19:25 - 00:04:45:13
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah. The world. And so we, you know, tasted this wine and we thought it was great. And we were trying to you know, we found it back in here in Ithaca. And it was only at that point like twenty-five dollars a bottle or something like that. And then all of a sudden everyone knew about Borolo. And then all of a sudden, I was like sixty-five dollars a bottle. And that was the end of our Borolo drinking for a while. But that's really, it’s kind of really started there. And then the rest of the story comes from basically my Alan and I taking a trip out west and we were in an RV and because we had two young boys and those two young boys, they're not young anymore. But back then it was they were four and eight. And we said it was pretty much going to be easier to move the hotel, that it would be to move them from hotel, the hotel. So that was the idea of an RV, but we had never done before. And we found a company that kind of did development of itineraries through the national park system for people in RV's.
And we're like, well, cool, because at the time, I mean, both my husband and I were working and we didn't know, like, how we would ever be able to plan something like this. And they did everything for us. You know, they gave it back then. It was like the Internet was there, but they weren't like sending PDF back and forth. And so, we got this binder that was like five inches thick that contained, you know, that it was before Google Maps. So, you got the triptychs and from the maps all mapped out, plus like little stops all along the way for bigger destinations.
So, if you're going to go to this park, make sure when you're driving here that you stop on this side of the road and get a blackberry shake from this guy because he makes like the BlackBerry fresh berry shakes like you can imagine. And literally right in the middle of that trip, my husband, I looked at each other and we said, you know, nobody does anything like this in the Finger Lakes that we know of that provides like a really cool, curated experience of what we thought was a growing tourism region. This back in 2007. Well, this was 2006 when we made this this epiphany. So, with my background from my I actually have a background in program evaluation. And so that explains why we do all these evolutional and how I'm such a data hound with you, because that's kind of just inherent in how I do things. And so, we came back, and we went to the visitor center in Ithaca, and we met with the director of business service right now who's Fred Bond, who's now the director of the Finger Lakes region for the parks.
And we said, hey, you know, we're thinking about doing like high end curated tours that are fully guided, narrated everything and is anyone doing it? And he's like, no, there's nobody doing that. The only thing I knew, he because there's this guy. And he was like driving people around and tried to do it. But he had another job. And he goes, but nobody has said, like, we're going to open this company. And so, we basically did a little research outside there, would offering them free scoops for purity ice cream if they fill a survey. And the survey came back really strong, like 75 percent of 100 people sampled said that it would totally do a story like that. And that was it. Basically, it was funny at the beginning because we had just got this idea of the parks. The idea was that my husband took some courses at Cornell in geology and so he knows a lot about rocks and in the area particularly. And I had this love and interest in wine, but, you know, never really anything past my vague interest in a from a fan. And so, I'm like, OK, so the company will be 50/50, you know, 50 percent. Gorge and Water tours, 50 percent wine yielded the gorge and waterfalls tours. And I'll do the wine tours. Well, from that moment on, it was always like 85, 90 percent wine and around 10, 15 percent max on the gorge and waterfall. Tough stuff. So, there you have it.
00:08:21:19 - 00:08:24:13
Chris Missick: On the wine tours, people still get to see waterfalls in one place.
00:08:24:15 - 00:08:36:03
Laura Winter Falk: We do. We always incorporate the waterfalls. It's still really important. And we still do have a beautiful waterfall and gorgeous and funny. You know, this year was actually the busiest ever because people want to be outside. So, more and more people we're doing our beautiful nature and in addition to the wine.
00:08:40:27 - 00:09:00:03
Chris Missick: So, for anyone who doesn't know that Cornell wine tasting class is legendary and I think it's probably spawned a lot of careers in restaurateurs and winemakers, I'm just curious if at that point, you know, about two decades ago, did they highlight New York or Finger Lakes wines at all in this program?
00:09:00:20 - 00:09:01:27
Laura Winter Falk: Well, we have to go back actually closer to four decades now. So was it's it was it's been like 35 years. I think something it's been a while. And the answer is yes, there is. There is. There was I remember very clearly that there was one day that was split. The lecture was split. It was finger. It may have been like I know it was more than just New York State. And it was. And I remember I can't remember maybe it was Canada and the Finger Lakes and New York State. But I remember it was not just Finger Lakes. And so, we're talking this was 1980. I graduated 87. So, it was 1987. And so, this was, you know, right when we were starting to see some more farm wineries opening up. But, you know, I like every other graduating senior, did the visits. And I specifically remember a lot of what was being called Johannesburg Riesling at the time and thinking that was really good and tasting red wine. But again, I was twenty-two and but actually I was really liking the red wines during the class. So, I definitely think I had appreciated the appreciation for some reds and not quite getting it in terms of enjoying that on the red side and in the Finger Lakes at the time. But definitely remember being enjoying the Rieslings.
00:10:26:15 - 00:10:28:18
Chris Missick: And when you graduated, did you stay in Ithaca?
00:10:29:09 - 00:11:00:23
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah, well, a short a short stint in Boston. For eight months, I became a registered dietitian. That was, you know, my nutrition degree went that route. But after on eight months working in an internship at a hospital, I knew that I was not going to be a clinical dietitian. And so, I started applying for alternative careers and nutrition. And it turned out that I joined a company that was a food service and nutrition company in Ithaca. And I came back, and I didn't ever think that would be what I would do. But eight months later, it came back I my husband right away and here I still am.
00:11:05:04 - 00:11:09:08
Chris Missick: That's fantastic. Yeah. And you mentioned your husband's in software.
00:11:09:17 - 00:11:44:09
Laura Winter Falk: He was in software. He was working for Autodesk, a very large software company based out of California. And they gave the six-week sabbatical to, you know, basically fully paid go recharge cymatics 1980s California during basically, you know, a big boom. And so that's why we were able to take that trip. But he quit. I mean, we both we both basically said we're going to do this. We're going to do it. So, he resigned from Autodesk and we said we're going to incorporate we basically did the survey in August of 2006 and incorporated in January 2007 and never looked back.
00:11:46:00 - 00:11:54:23
Chris Missick: Had you both had any sort of mental preparation for what it would be like to be an entrepreneur, to start your own business, because that's a big job.
00:11:54:25 - 00:11:55:20
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah, both of us, if it was a big jump, but it wasn't because we are both coming from business and we both happened to come to Ithaca is a big intrapreneur town. So, Cornell does have a very supportive program for research coming out of Cornell to start small businesses. And so, both of us started working by working with small companies, software companies that had an idea that's was
was born from Cornell. And I was the 36th employee onboard at the time. And Alan was the
third of his company, which was called Sebold. And that's funny that they actually haven't thought for a long time how they both have seen them. And so, we, as a process of growing company, grew into management positions and he actually got into some big operations. So, he did a loss of a contract, negotiations and things like that, working with big microcomputers and all these things. And I actually started a department, a brand-new department with an onboard. And I was the director of that department and I had, you know, million plus dollar sales budget. And so, I learned to do that at my tender age of twenty, twenty-six, twenty-six or so. Everything about, you know, basically starting and managing a small operation, small business. So, I knew how to run a business plan. And so basically, we wrote a business plan. Alan actually took an amazing course. I was offered through Alternative's Federal Credit Union called Business Sense, which did all the stuff that we didn't know about how to start an AI. You know, we are single standalone business. And so that filled in the gaps. Basically, we wrote the business plan and then he took the course to make sure that the business plan was correct. And we did pretty well on that. So, yeah. So, we had that we had that confidence of knowing that we were both coming from knowing how to run a business and but more importantly, not necessarily the financial parts of it, but more the confidence of knowing what we wanted the product to be and not sacrificing on that.
00:14:05:13 - 00:14:36:03
Laura Winter Falk: And that was I think that was critical because, you know, you open up a business and you open up your doors and then you want, like people to come. And we had one van and the two of us, that was it. And we're like, let's open graduation weekends on ONWE, open up on Ithaca College graduation weekend and will promote in the student newspapers about how come for graduation. Get out on Saturday, graduation on Sunday, do something fun. And we got zero bookings for both those days. And we tell you years later we discovered that it's the slowest day of the year for touring in if you're living in Ithaca because everyone from graduation comes in and books every single hotel. So, there are no tourists in the region. And at the time, we didn't really think it through to know that no one's going to do anything on Saturday because they got to go to convocation and then they have their party. And so, they're not going to go on a full day to winter. And that's all we offered. We're full day tours at the time. And so, we learned that that was not a good weekend for touring. But we also, you know, saw that happened. And we're like, OK, so I hope we can find customers. And we started getting customers and we would get calls that would say, you know, we had a tour. Our tour was actually in full circle. We started with three wineries and now we're back to just three. We went up to four for around ten years and now we're back to three and given to her on a given tour for three stops. We didn't have we did a full day without lunch, and that was silly. And so, we don't do that anymore. But people would call up and they would say, OK, we see you have a tour, but we want you to go to, you know, ten wineries. And we want you know, and we and they started always asking, you know, a bunch of people would ask for more wineries. And we were agreeing to go to, and we knew right from the beginning that as much as we wanted to fill vans and do business, that what we could not do is to dilute our brand. We had a vision of what we wanted to do, and we were just going to, you know, look straight forward and not compromise the brand for what we were trying to establish for just a short gain.
00:16:26:13 - 00:16:39:11
Chris Missick: Assured me it is one of the hard things in business, you know, when you can kind of take the shortcut to make payroll, but in the end hurt the long-term image of the business we're trying to build.
00:16:39:13 - 00:16:42:19
Laura Winter Falk: Absolutely. Payroll was really cheap back then. It was just him and me. Yeah.
00:16:44:11 - 00:16:44:26
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah. So, but you're right. I mean, you just if you have the. Vision, you must stick to it and not to mean that we haven't evolved our business plan for many, many years, but the vision has never changed. In fact, the vision became more and more pure as time went on. Yeah.
00:17:02:07 - 00:17:10:27
Chris Missick: You know, I was guilty of it once in my younger years doing one of those crazy wine tours and it wasn't in New York, did Temecula?
00:17:11:16 - 00:17:12:24
Laura Winter Falk: Oh, yeah.
00:17:14:00 - 00:17:44:04
Chris Missick: And I you know; I feel bad for the wineries that our group visited. Um. And it is when you step into the role of actually working in a winery and when you are, you know, shoulder to shoulder with other customers at a tasting bar, see the tasting, it just ruins the environment for everybody. Right. And that's one of the things that I've always liked about your groups. So, in our winery, we do this whole sparkling wine seminar. You know, we generally start with sabering.
00:17:44:06 - 00:17:44:21
00:17:46:13 - 00:18:16:10
Laura Winter Falk: I have I have to I just have to say, I tell you, this goes because, you know, I've been doing all I mean, I meet with all of our partners have been doing this for, you know, for 14 years. And just again, we talked about how we're both little data hounds and we love data. And so, I present the data from the year and they and they look at the little pie graph of all the bottles sold per person for all every single winery that I work with. And they keep saying what's going on with the is kind of logical. And I just look, I just say to them, I go because Chris Sabre's wine. And so, if you want your wines to go, if you if you want to license to go up shore, I basically put on a show because people loved it and he sold a ton of sparkling wine when he savored wine. So.
00:18:33:17 - 00:18:34:19
Chris Missick: Well, thanks. What I mean, what I like is it's you know, it's like every sort of movie
that starts with a big bang, you know, so it sets the tone. And then what we do is we go and discuss the whole process of making sparkling wine and we do a sample disgorgement and sometimes dosage with customers, but everywhere has a little different experience. You want to share some of the other things that happen around the Finger Lakes
00:19:02:24 - 00:19:22:08
Laura Winter Falk: on our tourism, specifically on our and our wine wineries? Well, the idea is and of course, one of the most fun parts about the job is, is the curating part. And it's always been basically I start with what people are saying about the winery in terms of what, you know, is this going to be wine that I'm going to be able to talk about? Because the bottom line is, if the wine isn't of quality, it's going to the I think what our customers love about what we offer is that, well, first they we hire wine professionals as tour guides. And now that we didn't always but we always had very passionate people who liked wine. That was the requirement. It was just like the beginning, you know, tour guide. Are you fun and personal? Do you like wine? And so, they felt that passion right away. And if and if so if we didn't have the passion behind the wine, it was very difficult. It affected the tour because, so we had to make sure that we were excited about the wine.
00:20:03:19 - 00:20:38:00
Laura Winter Falk: And as a result, like this Sunday, we're coming over to you and we do our annual field trip to taste through the current vintage new vintage and so we can get excited about it. And so, it starts with, you know, researching the winery, finding out what people are saying about the wines, making sure that their wines that that are that are that the winery has the same basically business ideas that we have. And because it starts with that meaning that if they don't see it as a positive part of their business to come and take
00:20:39:10 - 00:20:41:10
Laura Winter Falk: a small group and spend twice as long with them as they would with anybody else to understand and learn about your brand and give them a private spot away from the crowds and give them their own server. And if they if that doesn't jive with their own, their own business vision, then our partnership doesn't work because it's critical. And I've had many partners that have we've went our separate ways. But because the push came to shove, if their business is about quantity and they like the idea of having a VIP tour, but when push comes to shove, they really couldn't because of whether it's a physical or staffing, then we're just like, it's OK, it doesn't work. I'll be back with my charter groups or things like that. But so, it's starting with great wine. It always has to start with great wine. And once we establish that, then making sure that the that we both look at it is something that's going to be benefit to both of our businesses. And then and then we develop.
00:21:44:03 - 00:22:09:13
Laura Winter Falk: Then comes the fun part. The fun part is curating that experience. And it's usually me and my senior staff heading in and tasting through the wines and then basically, you know, sharing with the owners about what we're excited about. And then based on what we find we're excited about, then we build out the tour so that each winery is going to shine within what they're what they're what kind of what their personality is. But also, that we're not repeating and doing reasonably and care, Frank, at every single winery. And so, we're talking about having an opportunity of standing out for something distinctive from the other stops and but also there being a story to tell among the tour. And so that that every tour has just every tour has an overall message that we're trying to achieve. And this message on the tour that you're on is actually it's a really cool message. The message is that everyone on this tour were people who could be anywhere. You know, they loved one. They wanted to start a winery. And they and they chose the Finger Lakes. And so, everyone who's who is on this tour are people who I want to be here in the Finger Lakes. And so that's a great story to tell in terms of the story and the passion, because you guys are very three very passionate producers. And so, Vineyard winery tours out of the places in depth, sampling's, tank sampling's, and really just anything that is going to be something that is based on the relationship and the trust that has been developed over the years or so.
00:23:25:20 - 00:24:03:01
Chris Missick: Yeah, it is a really neat behind the scenes look. Before we move to the sparkling sort of seminar, we did a Riesling blending exercise. Yes. And I mean, my approach to Riesling is a lot of different fermentations. I look at each of these single lots as a different color that would be on a palette. Right. You know, now we get a chance to paint our picture. Uh, I realize that although that was a really cool way to share with customers what it is we actually do in the cellar when we talk about blending exercises, you know, customers would find the blends that they wanted and then they'd want to be able to buy those bottles. And I just never had a chance to custom blends. Right. We already have way too many skus, so I couldn't really go that direction. And, you know, when you come by on Sunday, we'll take a chance to try our 20 20 sparkling Chenin Blanc.
00:24:19:10 - 00:24:23:20
Laura Winter Falk: Oh, I've been waiting to try that for two years since you've been starting to show us.
00:24:23:22 - 00:24:29:01
Chris Missick: Yeah. So, the twenty I think is through fermentation, so in bottles. So, we'll see that.
00:24:29:03 - 00:24:33:09
Laura Winter Falk: And yeah, that was a big change because when you started doing a sparkling and the amount of sparkling wine that we sold at Bellangelo this year is just tremendous because they there's I mean, there's a great synergy through the demonstration, but also understanding that the passion and the work behind this bottle. And so, they're not threatened by the price being higher than other things. And just wanting to bring home that memory has a lot to do with it, to have. And when they open that bottle with friends, tell the story about, oh, yeah, they went out there just like stuck a sword and took it off.
00:25:06:05 - 00:25:10:20
Chris Missick: It was so cool. So, yeah, that was that was a good business decision. It was. Yeah, it
00:25:10:22 - 00:25:11:07
Laura Winter Falk: was.
00:25:11:25 - 00:25:25:20
Chris Missick: So, I want to talk about sort of some of your other things too. You're a certified sommelier and that was in what, 2014? 2018? Yeah. And what prompted the decision to go the route and get that certification.
00:25:25:29 - 00:25:56:19
Laura Winter Falk: So, at that point, 2014, we had been in business for seven years. I had I've always had really when I started bringing in tour guides to help me pretty much within, I think the second or third year and so 2014 I started feel really good about the staff that I had. And I also felt that I was I you know, basically I'm an educator. You know, my first job when I was twenty-two, when I came back for, was training people on how to use software. And this is like with DOS and carrying, I had a portable computer, and it was the size of a sewing machine and I bring it on planes and the guys feel so bad for me about me. Lift up this thing that was literally it was like two feet by, you know, two feet by one and 1/2 feet. And, but so I was in it and it was actually through that job and teaching that I realized that's why I wanted to get my PhD. It was because I wanted to teach academics.
00:26:33:17 - 00:26:49:16
Laura Winter Falk: Basically, I thought I wanted to go back and go into nutrition education. And then after going to school and getting the degree what I was the older student. Right, because I, I didn't go back until I was like twenty-seven. So, I had my first son. And then I realized that the whole tenure track thing, I was kind of like a little bit past that in terms of what I was willing to give. Not on. I had a kid and. And then also. I was part of a small company like you are, and when you and the way we run our businesses like you got a good idea. OK, let's do it right. Because you're small, you're nimble. You could do that. And so, I fortunately had that as my experience working for a small company. And then I saw a sudden like looked at the bureaucracy that existed in academia and everything, having to be cited in committee and that publishing a paper that a paper that I completed in 97 that didn't get published in 2001, that made me with no really delays. I just the process and realized that it wasn't fast enough for me that in terms of making a difference and having an impact and so that so that's why I decided to take this route and went into a career and tour company that provided basically one education on wheels and which is has another reason to do why we were very specific about what kind of people we would take and what kind of tours we're going to do. Because the running joke would be I didn't go get my Ph.D. to drive around drunk people. Yeah, exactly.
00:28:09:15 - 00:28:40:12
Laura Winter Falk: But basically, what I found is starting around 2012, 2013, that people are starting to ask me to do wine events and where I would come. And I bring six wines and I do wine pairings for, you know, maybe departments at Cornell, different people who wanted for specials. I did a couple of weddings, as you know, in the Finger Lakes is in stations. That was really cool. And that I and that it was working, you know, based on the fact that my credentials were OK on this company. And I got this degree in nutrition. But I realized that if I was really going to have the credibility that to do this kind of work, that I needed the real credentials, which was to become a song. And so that was the main reason, was to really do more of this win events because I love it. I there, there, you know, winter, typical wine tours and eight-to-10-hour day wine event is two hours. I get to drink with everybody. Why would I not exactly. And so, which of course, set up beautifully for, you know, what happened this year with covid and everything. And the funny thing is, in the best part to me is it came full circle and that started around three years ago that I get asked to be, you know, on the faculty at Tompkins Quinlan Community College teaching the wine marketing program. And now basically I teach all those classes now. So full circle, I'm back to teaching and academic says for young people in the career that, you know, for, you know, helping them and launch their careers, which was the whole reason for going back and getting a degree in the first place. So, it's pretty satisfying that way.
00:29:43:12 - 00:29:44:24
Chris Missick: It is. That's really cool.
00:29:44:26 - 00:29:53:27
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah, really, really cool. It was when I when I remember when Jason from Cultivar asked me if I wanted to teach it and I was very last minute because Ihad to, you know, basically they had a change in the mid semester and he's like, I know it's crazy. I know you own a business now, but would you possibly think about teaching this class and the class that he wanted me to teach was wine characteristics and food pairing. I'm like, well, duh. Yeah, I do. Yeah.
00:30:11:09 - 00:30:13:25
Laura Winter Falk: And so, I didn't even hesitate. I said, are you kidding? Of course, I do this. And it's one of my favorite things that I do complete community service. I mean, I get paid for it, but it's, it's, it's worth it. I love my weekly class teaching beverages this year. I actually know why this semester is coffees and teas and spirits and insiders and beer. So, one of the things that is neat, and it almost seems like it's been stratified, you've got Finger Lakes Community College up in Geneva, right in Canandaigua. And they've really taken the route of focusing on teaching winemaking. Yes. And viticulture now in viticulture. Yeah. So, Thompkins has really put together an awesome community college program, and it's called Coltivare. Right. And it is sort of the full gamut of the business side, the marketing side hospitality.
00:31:04:09 - 00:31:39:20
Laura Winter Falk: I mean, basically, you know, taking it through basically from table to, you know, to well, literally, they call it bistro to table, I don't know, a farm to Bistro Table. It's crazy farm to bistro. They have a program where you can actually do organic farming. You learn, you know, you get a degree in organic farming. They have their culinary program, which is definitely the most successful out of all of them, because in this current day and Age of Food Network, everyone wants to be a chef and they have wine required course requirements as part of that culinary program.
00:31:39:22 - 00:32:20:04
Laura Winter Falk: So that's a do a lot of teaching to the to the future chefs in the region. Then they have the wine marketing program, which is about people who want to go into the wine industry and in then they have a classic hospitality, kind of like the management. And so, it's great because, yeah, we are servicing. You know, the bizarre side of you said of the of the industry and because of one of my favorite and most rewarding parts actually of my job, is that I get to help place people in the industry, which is helping, you know, of course, the great students, and that is helping them start off their career.
00:32:20:14 - 00:32:49:02
Laura Winter Falk: But also, you know, getting people to get good people to work in the region and that and to be able to make those matches because and it's not just like it's a carefully vetted match, just like I know your personality, because I had you for two years in classes and I think you're going to be perfectly suited for this person and then, you know, introduce them and, of course, often taking some of the best ones and hiring them as a tour guide. Yeah. Which I've done twice as good when I can.
00:32:50:10 - 00:33:22:05
Chris Missick: It is interesting because, you know, you look at some other famous wine regions around the country and they serve as magnets for people to move out there, Napa, obviously. And so, they're attracting people with an interest and a skill set from all over the country. You know, we are still, in some ways a growing infant wine region. Right. And I say that knowing that there is one hundred and fifty years of history here. So, but a lot of the growth of the talent is happening organically here.
00:33:22:07 - 00:33:22:22
Laura Winter Falk: Of course, the people who move here tend to be moving here for either the winemaking or the I want to own a winery positions, but we are building a good base of skilled hospitality experts. It's true. And I think in your work there has been crucial and we just need more people of the mindset that this is an important asset for the region because our hospitality grows. Every other business around us grows. And, you know, it's you know, like I said, the culinary does really well. And I have turned many of these young people, young adults, into wine because they've acquired course to take that. And so, I, you know, explain to them how much how important it is as part of looking at young culinary in general. But it's an interesting thing for a two-year program, you know, an associates degree in that I found that, you know, 18-year old’s who are who are deciding what to do. Why isn't there proof is not in, it's not there, I mean, it's just they haven't had it and so they don't really know anything about it. And so, it's not something that many 18-year old’s jump into right out of high school. We don't get those students at all. And in fact, most of the students that we are getting a little bit older because they basically like you and me and who where they were doing something else and said, I think I really like why, and I want to go and do that. And so, they'll choose to get that that program, you know, get the degree to help launch their program. I mean, their career in in wine. But and so it's you know, it's not the typical community, you know, to your community college route. I mean, same thing with your program. I mean, how many people graduate from high school and say, I want to be a winemaker or a grower? It doesn't happen. It's usually an older thing. And so, it could make, you know, recruiting and finding those people a little harder. But the one we get, the students, they're amazing because that they are because they want to be there, and they know exactly what they want to do.
00:35:26:17 - 00:35:32:10
Chris Missick: And so, you're teaching in that just out of high school age group for a lot of folks, though, right?
00:35:32:17 - 00:36:07:14
Laura Winter Falk: For the people? Yes. I end up teaching them through culinary because they you know, again, it's not hard for the 18-year-olds to go into, say, I want to be a chef because they've been watching Food Network for four, eight years, you know, and so but what they're learning for the first time is wine within that context. And I teach that the required course for those students is the survey class. And so, where they were basically learning about the wine regions around the world, of which we spend a day on the Finger Lakes and then the beverages class to understand the role of all the other beverages in. So, they're going out there with a with but with a nice solid level of understanding the world of wine. But I have been encouraging the director of the department to say that you know what, the other courses that I teach this this wine characteristics and food pairing, I think is actually even more vital to this culinary students than, hey, here's the world of wine and all the different regions and learn about wines from grace and learn about wines from Portugal, because I'm giving them the skills on how to pull out tasting characteristics. I mean, literally teaching them how to train, looking for aromatics and structure profiles and then thinking about how they're going to make their food taste better by how they pair it with wine. And that is what many of my students who go on to be chefs really, really appreciate that. And they're really good at it, too, because by the time they take that class, they are so good at pulling out aromatics and flavors and wines because they already know this. I mean, they know what a clove tastes like. So, they could pull it out in wine, and they smells like and they're really good at identifying aromatics because of that.
00:37:20:28 - 00:37:51:07
Chris Missick: It's in the wine media. You know, I feel like ten years ago it was boomers have adopted wine, millennials have barely adopted wine. What are we going to do? Are we losing millennials and millennials are increasingly adopting wine? And I just read an article today that says Gen Z is now mocking millennials wine consumption on Tick-Tock. So, the big question is, you know, is Gen Z going to adopt wine? What have you seen in that age group?
00:37:52:05 - 00:37:52:20
Laura Winter Falk: Well. The youngest of the youngest, Shimura, well. What you know, I what I'm talking about millennials first, because I'm really excited about how I really feel that I mean, what and what I've been reading is that, you know, covid is really introduce women to the millennials in the sense that where they were looking for that, you know, these things to do and experiences to have, because that's what millennials love. They love to do things. And seeing about how women does that much better than hard seltzer in terms of providing a really engaging experience. And so is very exciting to see in just a year. The difference in terms of millennials coming out. Now, the youngest ones, you know, it's a mixed bag. You know, we're getting a very specific type of 20 something year olds. Right? So, the ones who come with us as we get the 20 somethings who are with us and, you know, when they might be ladies, you know, who are celebrating, but they're there with us because the person who organized it really loves wine. And one of the things that I found by all, you know, for 14 years of doing this is that some of the most enthusiastic people that come on our tours often are those
00:39:11:17 - 00:39:13:03
Laura Winter Falk: young people, the 20 somethings who all of a sudden, like you see like the light bulb going off and the like. Wow, this is really cool. Wow. I understand what you're talking about. Yeah, I get that. And wow, I never really thought about it that way before and just seeing them get excited about being able to learn more about and it being more than just drinking. And that is actually really interesting and fun and it's fun to learn about it. And it's an endless source of basically a way to keep your yourself, in your mind, active for your whole life.
00:39:46:23 - 00:40:05:05
Chris Missick: It was visiting a winery when I am in California and just having that aha moment sitting with a bottle, it was a bottle of Merlot, you know, on the grass, having a picnic with some friends. Just I wanted to live that every day. Yeah.
00:40:05:11 - 00:40:24:02
Laura Winter Falk: Oh absolutely. I mean that's basically that same experiences. That's what I had when I went in, when I was in college. But I do see I mean that's to me is actually some of the most rewarding is that when you when someone starts out, we always ask them what kind of wines they like to drink, and they'll end. And some of them are shy to say, well, I only like sweet wines. And so, what we say to them go, you know, there's nothing wrong with sweet wines. But what we're going to do today is show you that wine does not necessarily have to be sweet for you to really enjoy it, because wines could be really fruity and aromatic and don't have that sugarand you might find it. That's what you really like, is that you like fruity and aromatic and you don't necessarily need the sweetness to be able to enjoy it. And so, they get they feel so much better about, first of all, saying if that's what you like, that's what you like. There's something wrong with that. But there's a whole world of wines out there that you have even led to even learn about. And so that's what they love so much.
00:41:09:05 - 00:41:26:20
Chris Missick: World wines to learn about in a world of food, too. I was reading the Democrat and Chronicle; they did a review of your book and I love the title. It said, what was it? Uh, culinary. His farm to table is so three thousand years old there.
00:41:27:08 - 00:41:30:01
Laura Winter Falk: That all their headline. Yeah. Yeah, that was great.
00:41:31:14 - 00:41:38:00
Chris Missick: So, I'd just love to have a chance to talk a little bit about your book. Yeah. There's some really neat history and it ties in.
00:41:38:02 - 00:41:41:21
Laura Winter Falk: I got a copy in my car. I give it to you have you know. Yeah, I had it a while back. I lent it out to someone, you know, because I remember I remember when I first met you. Yeah. It was actually right when it got launched and you had put your book out and I put my book out and I think we traded. So, I'll give you another copy after we're done for sure. So, I'm sorry, what were you going to ask?
00:42:00:20 - 00:42:13:14
Chris Missick: No, I just would love to talk about it. You know, so much of the history of the Finger Lakes is tied in with Native American history. Yeah. And it tells the story of what food was here millennia ago.
00:42:13:16 - 00:42:14:01
Laura Winter Falk: Yep.
00:42:14:07 - 00:42:21:17
Chris Missick: And in some ways, it's interesting because these are still the root of what a lot of our local food culture is about.
00:42:21:19 - 00:42:55:12
Laura Winter Falk: Oh, yeah, I mean it. Yeah. The particularly, you know, one of the first industries that we had was the of New York State. Apples have been, you know, known as being some of the best in the country, going all the way back very early to the, you know, the seventeen hundreds and all of those trees were trees that were planted by the Haudenosaunee traits, the actual eating apple. I'm actually cider apples too. Came over from England because they were significant favorite fruit of the people who are coming over. So, they brought their opuses with them and so they went from basically the ports all the way through getting traded. So, when people started selling in here, there were apple trees everywhere that were planted by the Haudenosaunee. And and then for me, what was always so fascinating about that period of time was that the kind of farmers that they were I mean, they were amazing farmers. And there were these, you know, journal entries about like, you know, walking in and finding the acute you going over to, you know, place on, you know, on the Kuga nation where they have long, you know, because they all lived in these giant longhouses and they would describe them filled with corn, you know, just completely, completely filled with corn. And through that, that growing of corn in a symbiotic three sisters’ way was so ahead of their time in terms of, you know, sustainable growing. Right. You know, and out because, you know, the United States went through this period of monoculture that, yeah, it was very damaging to soils. But they built in right. In the system of, you know, nitrogen fixing going on right there in in their own little encapsulated, you know, wonderful little mound that, you know, provided a sustainable program for growing. And that made them very, very, you know, very wealthy as a as a community and powerful so that when it came down to the Revolutionary War, both sides were vying for them because of that food supply, the provisions of food supply. And, yeah, that was unfortunate that they couldn't come together on their decision on how to support so.
00:44:40:18 - 00:44:48:24
Chris Missick: And for those you know, especially that aren't here locally, the Three Sisters is an awesome growing technique. Oh, you want to describe it.
00:44:49:00 - 00:45:26:28
Laura Winter Falk: Yes. So, the Three Sisters is the concept of growing corn, bean and beans and squash together in a mound and the idea of being the main crop, the crop that the cash crop is the corn and then the other crop, the squash and the beans are supporting the corn crop, but also providing there, you know, obviously nutrition in their products, but also providing really important roles in the health and of the of the corn and as well as the farming itself and the
00:45:28:26 - 00:45:48:05
Laura Winter Falk: the in the Haudenosaunee culture, they describe each sister as having their own role and they describe the corn as the older sister who stands up straight and is, you know, the one who provides the support structure for the family. And then they talk about these seeds, the squash provides the ground cover and that the squash is really kind of impish and wild because it spreads all over the place and they're a little hard to control. And that and the and the beans and the beans are shy. And so, they swirl themselves around the legs of their of their big sister and peek out every now and then of being shy. But it's great visual. One of my favorite things in that book is that I asked Chris Loomis, my one of my tour guides, who's an artist to draw that his picture of that for the book. And I love that illustration and that he did that. It's kind of like part human face but coming into the ground. So, this great story, I always tell that on my mind when I do step on tours with a bus full of people and I read that quote out of the book because it's really neat, because it's like science and nutrition. Yeah. Because each one, the three of them together is, you know, is a perfect, you know, amino acid compliment. There's like my geeky nutrition person comes out every now and then. So, you need all three of them to have a complete amino acid compliment in order to have a healthy diet without meat. And so nutritionally, it's important they complement each other as well. In addition to growing, you know, in two things come to mind immediately. It's amazing how long squash will store for in the winter. You know, the beans can be dried out. The corn will, as I always am, amazed at agriculture because I learn these things in a book and what it took for these cultures to by trial and error, you know, to realize, oh, the nitrogen fixing component of the legume of the bean will continue to enrich the soil, whereas the corn will strip it. So, you need that balance. Yeah. And the fact that it got lost, you know about that. You know that that the success of that. I mean. Yeah, you. No, I mean I should. I would love to dig in to find out who thought of that idea, right, but probably just because those were natural crops to the area and have been around for a long time. But yeah, and it's a shame that, you know, the whole monoculture thing kind of came around and wiped out that concept. But I think that's come around again now that people are understanding the importance of rotating crops and fields and things like that.
00:48:10:25 - 00:48:37:20
Chris Missick: And I think, you know, to me, it's also important. Obviously, the soil preservation is key. Yes. But being so fixated on single crops destroys the ability for communities to create their own sort of breadbasket, so to speak. You know, of a lot of different sources for fresh vegetables and fruits that whether you're in a CSA or not, complement the movement towards how important place is.
00:48:37:22 - 00:48:56:02
Laura Winter Falk: Right. In fact, that's kind of like the one of the Take-Home messages of the book is that, you know, when I when I wrote it in 2014, I was a busy year, 2013, and I wrote it at like kind of like the heart of right wind farm to table was the unbelievable buzz word. And so, the whole concept of the book that they picked up as the headline was the idea, you know, OK, so that's a buzzword right now. But that's what the Finger Lakes has been forever. That's the only thing it knows. I mean, it's an agricultural community and region. And so, everything has been farm to table the way that they lived. In fact, I did a presentation once about kind of like how the role of sustainability in the history and that there was this dark period, you know, the dark period when they where they moved away from that. And it became much more about, you know, the periods of where people wanted to eat frozen foods. And that was because the freezer was a new thing. So, people moved away from fresh produce and moved more to frozen and can produce. And so is it that dark period in the 50s and the winds that we were drinking weren't necessarily that's making we're not so great. And so, I kind of look at that period as being and even actually not even the taste of it, but the whole idea of back then, in order to support a growing wine palette that was a little bit drier than when we were providing through our fortified, sweeter wines that we were tracking in wines from California. Right. Wines from California to blend into the Nebraska. And that wasn't sustainable either. And so, it was just a really unsustainable period around, basically a history of us being a very sustainable culture that can work and survive as a community very well on its own.
00:50:31:27 - 00:50:52:25
Chris Missick: So, a couple of things happened over the last two years that really impacted your business were on the other side now so we can reevaluate them. One was some legislation that arose from a horrific accident down on Long Island. Yes. Called the limo law. And that a number of restrictions on your business.
00:50:53:20 - 00:50:55:16
Laura Winter Falk: It didn't really hurt us as much as it hurt other small tour companies. We were we were lucky. The way it hurt us the most was so, yeah, that was the scary accident, terrible, terrible little accident that exposed some actually really lack of oversight in the limo industry. The unfortunate part of the laws that came out of it, because there was a lot of healing that needed to be done. And part of that healing is, is to get laws passed and to help, you know, correct things that were problematic in doing things quickly. You end up over overlooking certain things. And what happened is that in trying to legislate the limousine company, which had very little regulation, and where you were taking out 14 to 20 people and you didn't even need a commercial driver in order to do that. And that was a loophole that existed with limos being different than what we are, which is a touring van. And so touring vans fell under the regulation that required that any vehicle above nine passengers must be a commercial driver. And we fall under a whole different section that actually takes our vans, these 14 passenger vans, and they are buses and the eyes of New York State. And so, we that our whole part was protected already by that law. And so, you had safe driving and you have got inspections twice a year. And all those things that we had been doing since we started that limousines were not. And but in correcting that, they just block it and said vehicles. And that kind of made basically made it difficult in terms of basically putting double, basically. Restrictions on these small tour companies, but the biggest issue that was the insurance and took I as being around the block for a few years, doing this had helped a number of very small startups in the Hudson Valley and in the capital region to starts other small, basically farm to table tour companies. And they were destroyed. They literally destroyed because while we had been around for 10 years, our insurance actually our company, they were we had tons of bids because we had been around for 10 years. And so, they're like, sure, we'll give you a New York City tour company. You've been around for 10 years with no access. Yeah, we'll insure you. But the other folks were getting quotes that were, you know, 17000 dollars for a vehicle and they couldn't do it. And so, and these are thriving businesses that were doing great things for the community and doing things that were really well, that got unfortunately lost in in trying to make things better, which happens.
00:53:46:27 - 00:53:50:19
Laura Winter Falk: And then the other piece that really affected us was just a, you know, when, you know, the it became very difficult for us to sort of get, you know, because when we hire tour guides, we need, you know, people who have skills. But what we do because you know what our guys are like and how amazing is like we hire the guide and then get them the CDL. We can't it doesn't work for us to get skills and then teach them the other way. It has to start with the people who have the passion and that ability to, you know, basically educate and perform at the same time and that while carrying boxes of wine and all those other crazy things that are done. And so, all these people had to get Cadel's, which is a process we all went through. And it was a it was a very thorough testing process that I had been working with myself, with people for over 14 years to do. Then also it became impossible and where they were taking these incredible people who had done all the studying. And because it was a moving target of what they wanted and expected of these driving tests, that I was taking incredibly competent people who knew so much about how to drive safely on the road, who were just failing tests because of these unclear targets of what we're trying to be achieved. And they hired a lot of new examiners, too. And so, when you hire a whole bunch of new examiners, they're all trying to prove themselves. So, it became a difficult thing. So that 2019, I literally had been sitting in for the two busiest season months because I didn't have a tour guide to drive them when she was sitting there trying to pass the test as it was really difficult. It seemed to change a little bit this year, I think, because it balances out when you have crazy things like covid happening and realizing that companies are struggling that that I that are. Michael, who had to get certified during covid, did the work and got it done on the first try, which is something we didn't experience in 2019.
00:55:58:11 - 00:55:59:05
Chris Missick: It is interesting whether it's Department of AG and Markets inspector or a new wine reviewer for a magazine. If it's that first year, you better watch out.
00:56:09:00 - 00:56:40:24
Laura Winter Falk: because they're trying to get and they're all young, too. They were young people who you definitely know where I remember with one of our tour guides, she was one of the hardest working people I know. And on the third day, she fell twice because and that person made her go through six railroad tracks, six railroad tracks, of which she did the same thing over and over. And she felt her because she said that she parked she stopped too far away from the tracks, supposed to be 15 feet. And she stopped 30 feet or something like that.
00:56:41:27 - 00:57:06:21
Chris Missick: Yeah, but live and learn. Yeah, and covid, uh, I mean, I remember a year ago. Good Lord, I didn't know if we'd ever reopen, I didn't know if we'd be able to sustain ourselves on the heels of what had been a difficult year in nineteen with the lemon law and the regulations. What was going through your head a year ago?
00:57:07:23 - 00:57:39:06
Laura Winter Falk: Going through your head? A year ago, was like. How was I going to afford to give everybody refunds for all I had? Tens of thousands of dollars in down payments of people who were and for payments of people who had scheduled I mean, we were starting out with an amazing spring. I mean, we had bookings for March. We had bookings for April. And certainly, May is always a big, big month for four-year groups.
00:57:39:17 - 00:58:05:25
Laura Winter Falk: And I couldn't I couldn't service them. So, I and so the first thing I did was basically write a letter to everyone who had a reservation and spoke. OK, you booked this tour because you want to come to the Finger Lakes, just hold on right now. And just if you could wait a little bit and not ask you for a refund, you know, get your get credit, things like that, just so we can see what's going to happen. I really appreciate it, because the next thing you know, we have no money. Yeah. And I mean, literally and we had no money and thanks for IDL saved us. I mean, that ideal loan came through very quickly and every single penny of it went straight to paying refunds. And people who are who I owed money, who I couldn't give the Tautou, you know, and they were going to you know, they're going to be a wedding party who was planning on going out in April and are still going to get married. Yeah, they're not going. I want to do a tour no matter what. That's that ship has passed. So. So that was that was very scary. Yeah, that was very scary. And but then. The there's lots of silver linings that came out of it, yeah, um,it allowed us to pivot to the model that we are now doing, which is where, you know, we had a safety switched over to six instead of 14 in our large in our 14 passenger vans. We took only six people and discovered that is the perfect zone for what we deliver. And that's what we're going to do, you know, moving forward. And I had, you know, as we as you knew from our meeting last year at this time that I was moving in that direction, we best thing is you go out and you buy a nice little Mercedes, you know, for four, seven, four, six people. And then two weeks later, everything closes down. And this new vehicle is just sitting there in the parking lot for months. But that's the direction we were heading in, smaller, more, even higher end premium experiences. And it just led us to go in full, full, full hog.
00:59:50:29 - 00:59:51:19
Laura Winter Falk: Let's just do it. I mean, literally saying to Allen, well, you know what, if we're going to lose money this year, then at least we'll lose money doing it the way we want to. Yeah, and it actually turned out to be a successful year for us, for our tours and then for our winery partners. And sales have been better than ever before and wines for these people because they're getting an even more intimate experience that we are providing them. And as I said, everyone is yeah, we always saw 14 was a small group and that people really got to know. But when you take it down to six people, they were getting to know you. Yeah. Really well. And we had always said that, you know, in our business of small business, that's offering premium boutique kind of experience, whether it be a wine tour of the wines that you sell, it's all about the relationship and that and that is what they take out as much as that relationship and that that story as it is that bottle of wine. And that's what the difference was. And I love it and I love and that's why we're not going to go back. It was it was amazing to see. I mean, the changes were tough. But I think overall, I think we're all in the same boat, obviously, if we could go back, we probably wouldn't have Covid happened. Yeah, but it was a way to force us to look in the mirror and say, how are we going to operate moving forward? And many, many stories of reflection that that in terms of like, am I doing what I really want to do and, you know, am I doing. Am I happy with what I'm doing all over the world? For sure. And I think for both of us, it was something that made us stand back and say, you know, what's the essence of what we're trying to do? And. And so it worked out well.
01:01:36:06 - 01:01:37:04
Laura Winter Falk: And, you know, and then the whole virtual thing is not the whole story for, you know, in terms of the market that I presented for. For me and being able to do realizing, hey, I could do this whole education thing and over, you know, computer with little squares and make people have, you know, showcase Finger Lakes wines and totally Finger Lakes cheeses and each virtual I did each one kit that I sell supports 10 small businesses in the Finger Lakes. So that was something that I felt so proud of, that I look back in 2020 and my virtual program literally helped 88 different small businesses between winery's farmers, wine shops. It was really something that I look back and feel really good about. Yeah. Plus, all these people in California now know about the Finger Lakes wines and like them,
01:02:30:08 - 01:03:00:06
Chris Missick: That that has been pretty interesting to see. I mean, I had a conversation with another producer in, you know, the focus of it was we're opening up so many new direct to consumer channels. Why are we even worried about signing distributor agreements and setting up for wholesale in these states? If people are enjoying our wines yet, we're going to sell a thousand less cases, but we're going to sell a lot of wine still and we're going to develop a deeper relationship with that customer.
01:03:00:08 - 01:03:10:03
Laura Winter Falk: Right. Or maybe be more discriminatory how you distribute right now. And because it's still really nice to have your wine and those really nice restaurants in New York City or something, but the. Yeah, the West Coast and people who have been discovering Finger Lakes wines, it's been really cool because. They are recognizing that there's actually good white wine out there and many of them. I mean, they, you know, didn't know that they can like white wine, and I remember this is one couple who they did a private was just a just, you know, the three of us. And they have a home in Napa. And he actually owns a vineyard in Napa. And she loved our wines. She loves the Finger Lakes wines because she loves the acidic structure. Yeah. And she had no idea that she can get those kinds of, you know, these kinds of white wines that even existed out there and opened up a whole new ice for her. And I was like, yeah, I mean, you know, I go, you know, California wines are really rich, and they can be made, you know, very mineral driven and acid driven. But it's really hard to do that in 105-degree weather sometimes. Yeah.
01:04:23:22 - 01:04:32:27
Chris Missick: You can't fake authenticity. Yes, and you're going to get authenticity with the particular structure, right. And acid driven wines here.
01:04:33:02 - 01:04:34:07
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah, exactly.And so that was really and it's so much fun. It's so much fun to do that and introduce that to people who had no idea. And so, yeah, we got a lot of new fans out there all over the country as a as a result of not just me, but whatever all of us who have got on the screens and started talking about our stuff and lots of people who were at home ready to buy wine because they nothing else to do.
01:04:57:05 - 01:05:02:18
Chris Missick: So where do you see, you know, the next five, 10, 15 years for the Finger Lakes?
01:05:04:10 - 01:05:15:18
Laura Winter Falk: You know what? I've been thinking about this and what I've been saying and, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but I could give my thought on it is I think there's going to be, um. There's going to be I don't want to say to take it, I don't want to be taken the wrong way, but it's going to be almost be like this tale of two regions in the sense of the wine region that there are going there. I definitely think that there's going to be ademand for all those big groups who want to come back and get out and spend a day and, you know, and enjoy wine in a very, very casual, celebratory way. And they will. And those wineries who were doing that before are going to want to jump back into that and whose models were based on that are going to jump back into that. And but as a result of everything that's happened is going to be a very, very high end, you know, more exclusive group of wineries who are not afraid to say, yes, our tasting fees are going to be more, but it's going to be worth it because not only are wines worth it, but the experience that you're going to get is going to be worth it. And so, and that, you know, that is fun. But I've been trying to do for 14 years, you know, it's about trying to I mean, literally and now, you know, the wineries got to see that, OK, we can do this. And it could be what we do. And we don't have to necessarily have, like you said, people shoulder to shoulder at a bar, you know, and that we can take that time and, you know, spend a little bit more time with them, pay a little bit more in tasting fees to do that, you know, financially, and then
01:06:46:28 - 01:07:24:03
Laura Winter Falk: be able to make wines at a price point that that will be worth what they represent. So, I think I do think so. I think there's going to be two very different markets, probably some hybrids in there, too. But I think, you know, we'll become better at I think there's still things in the region as a whole in terms from tourism that we need to do in terms of welcoming the visitor in a full way. I mean, now that we have these incredible experiences that these really wonderful wineries, we need more accommodations that are at that same level at that like really high-end boutique level in places that that, you know, Ithaca has a few we got places over, you know, Kuga with the ends of Aurora. We got something over here in Geneva. But there's a lot of space in between and some major gaps. And that can really do well with those kinds of, you know, really service driven, hospitality driven accommodations. And then, you know, FLX Hospitality is doing a great job and promoting a great, you know, food service. I mean, to offer great restaurants here and with Christopher Izabella doing is fantastic. And I hope when restaurants start booming again, that we start bringing in a lot of more really high quality. Yeah. So, it's I think it's got a bunch of them and now Geneva does, but there are still other places I can use them.
01:08:16:24 - 01:08:48:12
Chris Missick: There are. And you know, what I'm finding interesting, too, is even the evolution of some accommodations like the parts that Dave Bunnel has done down there. You know, Sapalta. They're great. Really targeted high end restaurant. Right. Um, it's like a luxury glamping. Yes. You know. Yes. But you're right there on the water. Yeah. Stuff like that. We need to continue to see these projects grow. Exactly. And my I, I have a little bit of add, but my attention so focused on the winery, it's got to be someone else.
01:08:48:14 - 01:08:48:29
Laura Winter Falk: Oh. I got to say, I thought you were already here to tell you. That's what next year on this project. Alakazam. My goodness, no. I think there's definitely a lot of opportunity for those, especially on the water. I mean, we just don't have enough of them on the water with we got a lot of miles of lake frontage here that we can do some more of. That is East Seneca. I mean, and not just on the ends in between. Yep. Yeah.
01:09:15:21 - 01:09:20:21
Laura Winter Falk: And then so that was regionally for you Laura. What, what are you looking at the next ten years? Oh goodness. Those four probably be you know what I you know, going into the homestretch. Right. I wouldn't say
01:09:31:04 - 01:09:33:19
Chris Missick: the singularity is going to happen. We're all going to live to one hundred eighty.
01:09:33:21 - 01:09:35:28
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah exactly. Exactly. Um.
01:09:37:29 - 01:09:44:14
Laura Winter Falk: Continuing to be a spokesperson not only for the region, but for what you know, you know, we you know, when l and I named our company and, you know, we named it Experience the Finger Lakes, you know, we got that name actually from a friend of ours who is a marketing professor at Cornell. And we had dinner with him and his wife, very good friends. And we were saying, well, we figure a name, and we came up with an idea and tell you what. So boring, boring and embarrassingly so. And he's like, no. He goes, how about experience Finger Lakes? And. And he's like, and this is why. Because this is a guy I'm 27. He's in. And Checky is the kind of person who reads reads a lot, you know, to see what the trends are because marketing professor. And so he's like, there's a big buzzword out there. It's going to be all about experiences. And this is 2007 and it's all about experiences. You can start to see that word everywhere. And so you should do that. And he goes and you don't want to be it’s so brilliant because you don't want to be the Finger Lakes experience, because if you say finger the Finger Lakes experience, then you are defining what that is to them as opposed to putting it as a verb and putting it first, because then it's their imagination that becomes what that experience is. And so, so and then, Allen, I want to put the exclamation point there, because we wanted to let them know that what we were going to deliver was going to be something that was going to be above and beyond anything that that they would have imagined. So, it's like imagine and then let us deliver it. And so, it's that idea of continuing to do that for our region. But, you know, maybe other places, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I always I always said to Alan, I go, you know, experience all sorts might be nicer or how about you? And, you know, having people experience Barcelona. I mean, I have done some trips and on my own, you know, everyone every vacation becomes an R&D for a wine. Yeah. Why trip? I have worked out with my family that, OK, wherever we go, as long as there's a wine region close by. Yeah. That works for me. And you have to promise me you give me, you know, a day or so and the idea of being able to maybe host small groups and bringing them over to give them really cool experiences overseas or you know and would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. As I am I think I was hoping you'd say that because I really do see it as a, you know, a brand that can apply to so many places. Yeah. You know, yeah. I’dlove to be able do that. I mean I think that there's a lot of great places out there that certainly I want to see that. And one of the things I don't think I've ever told you, but one of the things for me that when I became a sommelier in the process of studying and becoming awesome is that it literally shifted how I viewed my what our job is for experience. The Finger Lakes was when I started it was, I was it was about immersing myself in the Finger Lakes and like, only drinking Finger Lakes, wines and I need to do that. I needed to become an expert at Finger Lakes wines. And I became that and then but coming out of that and but also but very much having this very much very focused, really, you know, sharp laser focus on the region. And then I did the course and then all of a sudden, I came back. And when I do the tours now, it's like, let me teach you about what Finger Lakes place in the world is in the world, the one where do we fit in the world of wine because hey, man, we've landed. You know, when I started, we were an idea. I felt that, you know, and we definitely our company definitely caught the tide and grew with the increased notice that the region was getting. But, you know, we're here now. And why? You know what put us here, you know, and I love sharing about, you know, it's well, obviously, Riesling helped put us on that international map. But why and
01:13:51:29 - 01:13:52:28
Laura Winter Falk: I love being able to teach this to my students, too, about, you know, it's all and I remember the first thing, Chris, I remember just so clearly the first time I met you and I tasted your wines and I literally had said these wines give off a sense of place and you just went berserk and you're like, oh, my God, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. And I said, I then your book was named That. And then I and that's what I describe. I describe about what, you know, how Rieslings, they fit a need and they have their own definition of what they are that is distinct from Mosul, that's distinct from Alsace, and that's distinct from Australia,
which are the three other major Rieslings centers in the world. And you can literally. You could. Literally describe that in terms of structural differences, alcohol differences and flavor differences, and that's why, you know, and now we just need to find out what some of these other varietals that we're doing to that is.
01:14:48:26 - 01:14:51:25
Chris Missick: I think Chenin Blanc will be one of them. So, we'll see.
01:14:51:27 - 01:14:53:05
Laura Winter Falk: And you're going to have a corner on that market there? \Well, based on my experience, you know, driving through the lower valley where I was last year, gosh, that's unbelievable that it's already been a year and more than a year since I was there and tasting seven year and the mineralogy that comes from seven years of a and blocks. And yes, we can totally create a sentence like that because they and I love that grape. Oh, my gosh. I love that grape. And the ages of. Well, I, I just actually opened up a bottle of one of the ones that I got.
01:15:29:22 - 01:15:30:07
Laura Winter Falk: That's what the best part about being a somm is that you can call up someone and you could say the winery, it's Christmas Eve and you call them up and say, hey, I'm a mom from New York, can I please come and do a tasting at your winery? And they're like, sure, you're not closed? And I got an amazing experience there. And I opened it up just last week. And the richness that it's pulling out with this, but just cleaned mineralogy that comes out of this beautiful rich apple flavors that are coming. I can't wait to taste it.
01:16:09:10 - 01:16:27:23
Chris Missick: Yeah, the thing I love about Chenin is in some ways it's like Riesling for us. We can make great sparkling, we can make great boxercise, you know, dessert wines and everything in between. But it does offer a fulness and almost extra kind of layers of flavors and profiles that sometimes I don't find in Riesling.
01:16:32:09 - 01:17:05:27
Laura Winter Falk: Yeah, I agree. I mean, yes, there's definitely well, I think it's that it has a real richness in that tree fruit section. Right. Not that real, real core. And you get a lot of lushness in that that's different than the, you know, the stone and tropical notes, but it's yeah. It fits that same boundary. Right. You can you know, you see Chenins with, you know, after portions of Ray and then stelae, you know, mineral driven ones in the Savennières. And, and so it does fit that same kind of botrytis works beautifully with it as well.
01:17:06:01 - 01:17:16:07
Chris Missick: Touch less of the citrus. But at least everything I've been able to work with very comparable chemistries. Yeah. If not even more potential for ripeness.
01:17:16:15 - 01:17:27:09
Laura Winter Falk: Yes. And some really cool floral notes too. Yeah. A lot more florals up my followers out of there. So, I am so excited I'm tasting this on. So, are you going to do it in style? Two are just focusing on sparkling right now.
01:17:27:11 - 01:17:32:13
Chris Missick: So, our first still was 2017. We did 2018 as well as still. I'll send you with a bottle. I was going to say I clearly don't come off my tour. Guys are getting all the inside. I don't get off as much. And then we've done two vintages still entourage of sparkling.
01:17:44:24 - 01:17:48:19
Laura Winter Falk: Uh so this you're the only one that I know of growing it,
01:17:49:04 - 01:17:50:17
Chris Missick: I think, um. I'm blanking. I know that there was one other planting somewhere, I don't know that there's been a commercial release. So, yeah, I mean I mean, I have a lot
01:18:02:15 - 01:18:03:27
Laura Winter Falk: of you know, it's
01:18:03:29 - 01:18:35:12
Laura Winter Falk: always fun to see how a new and not a new grape and an old grape from an old region finds its place here. And in the book 2014, I said just, you know, for me, watch blah frankest Lemberger and Saporavi and the Reds, because we still haven't defined our reds yet. And while everyone like, very grounded and Cab Franc and I love Cab Franc, but boy, I'm really excited about these reds and more and more wineries are getting very particularly Blaufrankisch and the lemberger is really cool, is doing very well here.
01:18:36:10 - 01:18:56:01
Chris Missick: So interestingly, Steve, down at Glenora, the winemaker, you kept thinking about shooting a block and went through his notebooks and found that in 1981 they were still Chenin Blanc planted around here. So, there is a history. I don't know what it might have been, you know, with
01:18:56:03 - 01:18:57:09
Laura Winter Falk: cuttings from Dr. Franck's.
01:18:57:11 - 01:19:01:25
Chris Missick: Yeah, I think it might have even gone back to the old Goldenseal days when they were experimenting,
01:19:03:17 - 01:19:04:09
Laura Winter Falk: experimenting
01:19:04:20 - 01:19:05:20
Laura Winter Falk: very well.
01:19:06:01 - 01:19:08:06
Chris Missick: You know, since then, there really hasn't been any.
01:19:08:08 - 01:19:32:13
Laura Winter Falk: So, yeah, you know, I could I, um, you know, because the Standing Stone Vineyards are those original experimental plantings. I could ask Marty about whether or not they she knew that there any Chenin in there, because I remember her saying it was Pinot, Saparavi, and Riesling, I think. But I mean, you look at the climates, you know, you see that Loire valley has less similarities.
01:19:32:15 - 01:19:36:12
Laura Winter Falk: So, a little bit warmer. A little bit in the winter.
01:19:37:00 - 01:19:38:07
Chris Missick: In the winter, for sure.
01:19:38:28 - 01:19:56:24
Chris Missick: Well, it's been a real pleasure to have you here. So much fun. Thanks for stopping by. I encourage everybody. They have an opportunity to sign up for one of the Experience, the Finger Lakes wine tours. You won't regret it. And especially if you're someone who is new to wine. It is one of the best introductions you're going to.
01:19:58:11 - 01:20:19:07
Chris Missick: I hope you enjoyed the show, this has been viticulture when we share ways to cultivate a good life. Don't forget to visit our website at viticulture podcast Dotcom. Subscribe to our sub stack, where you'll get show notes, transcripts, musings and exclusive offers and check us out on all the major social media platforms. Thanks again for stopping by.